More Theo
I ran into this discussion on a mailing list, and it really shows the problem I have with Theo de Raadt. I’m not going to go into too much technical detail, as it’s not all that relevant, but basically somebody vaguely mentioned the security benefits virtualization can provide. He didn’t really go into detail about his scenario, but it got the following response from Theo:
You are absolutely deluded, if not stupid, if you think that a
worldwide collection of software engineers who can’t write operating
systems or applications without security holes, can then turn around
and suddenly write virtualization layers without security holes.
Now, it’s clear what happened. The original poster was commenting on the security benefits of running different services basically in their own Sandbox, if you will. Taking one physical machine, slicing it into a few Virtual machines, then running bind, apache, mysql, etc in their own virtual machine is inherently going to be more secure than running them all on one server. However, Theo’s viewpiont was that each service on its own physical box is always going to be more secure than running it on virtual machines on one server. Neither side is wrong, it was simply a misunderstanding.
However, the problem is Theo immediately runs off into name calling and belittling the original poster, as you can see from the quote above. There is no misunderstanding with Theo. You either agree with him, or you’re an idiot. To Theo’s credit a majority of the time he’s right, but it’s the attitude that costs him support. Theo would be a much more likable figure if his debates progressed past the 5th grade level of maturity. It’s not bravado he’s displaying. It’s not tough love. It’s arrogance, which absolutely drives me nuts.
That’s not to say I don’t like OpenBSD. It’s a great product, and Theo does a great job. That’s not even to say Theo’s a bad person. But it’s definitely a character flaw, IMO.
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Aw come on. If you read the whole thing you’d see that he’s poo-pooing virtualization because it doesn’t make vulnerabilities in the hardware itself transparent, like many vendors want you to think. You really can’t depend on a hypervisor or whatever to make an OS more secure. It’s like putting cheap tires on a Ferrari.
Theo doesn’t pull punches and he goes over the line, but in this case he’s right.
Well, I acknowledged that he was right in what he was saying. His arguments just seem like 5th graders fighting on the playground. Incredibly smart 5th graders, but 5th graders nonetheless.
There’s no reason to start your side of the debate off with “you must be an idiot if…”. None. And regardless of whether he’s right or wrong (which most of the time he’s right), it’ll always rub me the wrong way.
You didn’t necessarily agree he was correct. Consider this: nearly every argument I’ve seen relating to opensource software could be related to fifth graders on a playground. But… you have to say…
Theo cuts out the political bullshit, gets right at the throat. He says exactly what he thinks and doesn’t cut corners. There is too much pussy-footing regarding disagreements right now in open source matters. Theo DeRaadt summarily says, “Fuck that,” states his opinion and moves on. There’s nothing wrong with that aside from some hurt feelings. He admits when he’s wrong or shows how he was misinterpreted when he is.
This “political bullshit” is exactly what drove Daniel Robbins away from Gentoo after he came back from Microsoft.
I’m really biased here. I love OpenBSD and I hate the idiots who post idiotic shit on the mailing lists. Moser comes to mind. Also, I won’t necessarily tell someone they are stupid face to face, but I have been know to blurt out carefully crafted things that could be interpreted as my telling them off. Intentionally or not. Matt can give some examples.
Meh. We’re just not going to see eye to eye. As I was writing this, I knew we’d disagree
I hate PC crap as much as anyone, but there are ways to say what you think and cut through PC nonsense without being an ass along the way, and I don’t think Theo ever finds the right balance.
I’ve seen you first hand. I don’t need Matt to give me examples (I can’t imagine he’d return my e-mails anyway
). I don’t think you cross that same line. It’s a fine line, but I think Theo’s definitely on the other side.
That’s great that Theo cuts the bs and gets straight to the point but that doesn’t change the fact that the delivery is bad. He could be telling people the sky is blue and people would ignore him cuz his delivery is bad. I feel that people as smart as he is often don’t pass on their knowledge to others because they have trouble communicating it. He could have easily replied saying what he said with out doing the way he chose to. Just my two sense.
And I still think they are both right.